262. Which of the 6 speaker types are you?
In this episode I’m joined by Dr. Cam McDonald — a global leader in precision health.
Together, we explore how your health profile, stress response, and genetics shape the way you use your voice and show up on stage.
You’ll discover the 6 types of public speakers:
✨ The Activator
✨ The Connector
✨ The Sensor
✨ The Guardian
✨ The Crusader
✨ The Diplomat
We dive into how each type:
Best prepares for a presentation
Finds ease and confidence on stage
Leverages their natural strengths to engage an audience
This episode is full of aha! moments, especially if you’ve ever wondered why you thrive in some speaking situations but freeze in others.
Transcript
Get ready. This episode of That Voice Podcast is so fascinating. It's great to have you with me. So on occasional Wednesdays, I go into the a BC radio studio in Brisbane to record a little segment called Pep Rally with the radio announcer Kat Feeney. And I'm usually joined by a sporting coach. Last time I was joined by our guest today, Dr. Cam McDonald, and after a short chat, I knew I had to get Dr. Cam here on That Voice Podcast. Dr. Cam is a global leader in precision health. Don't worry, he explains what that is. Now, what does it have to do with voice and speaking? Well, we dive into how the sound of our voice and the way we approach public speaking is impacted by our health profile, our epigenetics.
And don't worry, he explains what that is, too. And we go through the six types of public speakers, like six archetypes, how they prepare differently, what makes them feel at ease, what are their strengths. It's absolutely fascinating and I'm keen to hear what profile you feel is most you keeping in mind. No one fits completely in the one category. We're all unique. And this is the whole premise behind my book Voice Print, is that your voice is as unique as your fingerprint. It's your unique mark. You leave on the world when you speak and when you read my book, you'll hopefully feel inspired and equipped to lean into the strength of your Voice Print. The link to pre-order is in the show notes. There's also the voice codes oracle cards. And once you've pre-ordered, let me know, send me the receipt and I will send you the link to buy tickets to the big launch party in Brisbane on December 7th. If you're listening to the podcast and you're in Brisbane, come and party with me. You've gotta join me. So there's lots of alignment. Dr. Cam is about treating the person, not the symptoms. And I'm all about teaching voice from the inside out, releasing the magic you already have within.
Sally:
Dr. Cameron McDonald, welcome to That Voice Podcast.
Dr. Cam:
So great to be here. Sally. Thank you so much for having me here.
Sally:
I'm excited to dive into today's topic. What does “precision health” mean?
Dr. Cam:
So precision health means very different things to what we're currently doing with health right now. So what we generally do with health is that we say, Oh, someone has heart disease, so I'm gonna get treatments that are heart disease proven and I'm gonna treat heart disease. What precision health says is, Oh, I've got two people that have both got heart disease. I'm gonna measure and understand these people. And it turns out that one person's heart disease is being caused from lack of nutrient absorption in their digestive system, and that's then creating wasting and lack of repair of their arteries. And that's causing a problem. Whereas another person, they have heart disease because they've got insulin problems and inflammation and chronic inflammation. So when we look at those two people, they've both got heart disease, but for one person, we've gotta treat the nutrient absorption issues and the recovery of their arteries for the other person. We've actually gotta treat the inflammation. So instead of treating the disease, we treat the person. And as soon as you treat the person exactly the cause, and you treat that person with the nuance of what's required for that person day to day, month to month, year to year, at their age and stage of life, that's when you get the really, really big change.
Sally:
It makes so much sense, doesn't it?
Dr. Cam:
Oh, it's a no-brainer, but we're not doing it.
Sally:
Yeah. How did you get into this?
Dr. Cam:
I was Exercise Physiology and then Dietetics. I was in practice doing my PhD, but in private practice treating people with diabetes. And I was noticing that some people were getting really great results and other people were getting no results, doing the same thing. And I was like, What the hell is going on here? So I started thinking, well, maybe it's me. After a couple of years of this, I said, maybe I'm not giving the right protocol. I started looking at genetics. I then started looking at epigenetics, which is how genes express and how the environment influences our genes. And I found what is now the world's leading or in organization in precision health and medicine called Shae. Shae Group.
Sally:
Yeah. Congratulations. It's so great. We first met in the green room at an a BC radio studio, and I was so fascinated by what you did. I did a bit of research behind it, and it's really heartening to see the health industry starting to go in this direction. And I was thinking, I sort of do precision voice coaching because somebody presents with a fear of public speaking, but the reasons behind that are completely different with every person. So let's talk a bit about voice. Do you have any information in your research or anything you've come across about how the voice can indicate the overall health of a person?
Dr. Cam:
The place that I would start is the connection that your voice has as a, as a symptom of what's going on in your system. There's this fascinating stress response strategy that we have as humans, and that is when we're stressed, our voice changes and our face changes. So there's a, and it's related to this beautiful theory called the polyvagal theory, which is everyone's heard of vagus nerve by now. Everyone's may have heard of the fight or flight response, but what most people don't know is that there's two different responses that the vagus nerve can have. One is social, calm and happiness, and the other one is a stress shutdown freeze response. So it's like a stress response, but it shuts us down, shuts our metabolism down. It's like the opposite of fighting. Certain people when they stress, they activate the dorsal vagal and that creates a freeze of their digestive system. It can create a shutdown of their energy levels and it makes them look blank. Their face goes into a state of shock almost, and it, and it freezes.
Sally:
Yeah. So I'd say that's something that does happen to people when they're getting up on stage before speaking.
Dr. Cam:
Exactly, yes. So it's part of the stress response, but it's a way that we can play dead essentially, and call for help. So when you see somebody up there and their face is shocked this is because there is this freeze response going on because of the overwhelm of stress. It's like, This is too much. I'm gonna play dead. If you've got this freeze response on, it signals to your throat and to your face to say, look scared. So that when you turn around and your community see, Oh, this person looks really scared, then the community,
Sally:
They'll help you!
Dr. Cam:
Comes to your help. Exactly. But what does that, what happens in our community right now, we see someone looking scared and we think, Who is that weirdo? I'm outta here. And we have this total opposite effect.
Sally:
We move away rather than moving in.
Dr. Cam:
We have this, we have this anti-community response to someone in trouble. We just think, oh, they're dangerous now. And in this way, that changes your voice, you know? And everyone knows it's like, everything fine? Yeah, I'm fine. You know, that goes up. It's, and the face is like, Oh, I'm okay. You know, there is a huge influence of your, of your stress response on your voice, but what stresses us is actually very different for different people. And so how we navigate into what's causing that freeze is where it gets really interesting and very precise.
Sally:
That's of course the follow-up question is, well, how do we stop this happening? If everyone's different, what is the starting point?
Dr. Cam:
Okay, great. So the starting point is different for everybody. So I'll go through a few different examples. Firstly, there are some people that naturally go into fight and flight. They go into sympathetic action. I'm just gonna do it. They're gonna burst on the stage with lots of energy, whatever it may be, because they have a really strong adrenal system and a really strong steroid system. So they make more steroids like testosterone, and they make more adrenaline. And they've been doing that their whole lives. So when their body goes into a state of, Oh, I've got a public speak, or I've gotta use my voice, their body says, oh, I'm really familiar with all of this energy. I'm really familiar with adrenaline. I'm really familiar with competition. I'm gonna over express. I'm gonna get too excited. You know, that's the risks that they run. They'll actually feel more calm and more like themselves under pressure, and they'll create that in their lives as well.
Dr. Cam:
They'll like procrastinate on things until there's an emergency, or they'll just find that they come into their own when there's actually chips are down and they've gotta sort something out really quickly. They'll be like, oh, I can public speak. Yep. I'll just give it a crack. I'll just go out there. I don't really care. Like, whatever. You know, and they, they firm themselves. So one of the ways they can dial their energy down, which is actually what they need to do, and to become more centered because they're more likely to go up and out with their adrenaline, is doing some really intense movement beforehand, burns off that excess adrenaline so that they can sit in a calmer state. Or even having a meal maybe 20 minutes out.
Sally:
Right? That's the kind of speaker that has the Mars bar 20 minutes before, does the pushups against the wall, gets it all out and runs on. Amazing. So that's, that's person, person one.
Dr. Cam:
We call them an Activator. The opposite to that is the Diplomat. The Diplomat is a body that has less capacity to create the adrenaline. They have less cortisol production generally. They don't like being in a state of heightened stress. They like schedule and planning. And their digestive system is where a lot of their action is happening. They like to be able to ruminate on things and calmly process things. And that creates a nice sense of serotonin in their brain, which is calming and rewarding. Now, Activators, their reward is excitement and risk. The Diplomat, as we call them, they are all about scheduled, steady, small steps and non-urgent stuff. So the way that they have to prepare for getting up and using their voice, 'cause they're more likely to freeze, they're more, their face is likely to freeze and their voice is likely to freeze. 'cause that's their tendency in stress.
Dr. Cam:
So what they need to do is they need to prepare very thoroughly so that everything that they're doing, they know really well. And once they have that knowledge really well, they then need to practice strategies mentally of what do I do when I'm feeling this way? Because what we're trying to do is get them into a ventral vagal response which is the happy social calm, this is where they can do box breathing is actually very effective for them. Where we're building up carbon dioxide by holding our breath for four, letting it out for four, holding our breath for four, and then breathing in for four. That regulates their nervous system. They don't wanna have eaten too soon before they, and normally they can go five to six hours without a meal. They need to do lots and lots of preparation so they know what's coming. And then they need to rehearse at a number of times so that everything in their talk is very well known. There's no surprises.
Sally:
This is so interesting. It's like they, a Diplomat would be somebody, I'm just thinking about my students I work with. This would be a really great lens to, to run over it because they're the ones that say, Right. I like having my my five step voice warmup before I go on. Who's
Dr. Cam:
Next? We've now got the Crusader. That's me. So the Crusaders are they're like the typical triathlete and the typical person, male or female, they work 70 hours a week, then they go and they've got their $10,000 garment bike and they're tracking their wattage and they're doing all of the things and they're very like, this is the mission that I'm on. And nothing else exists.
Sally:
Do you have like a Fitbit or an Apple watch? Do you keep track of all these?
Dr. Cam:
I've Apple watch. I've got my whoop band that I was using here for a while. I've got, I've got plenty of things going on. So when we're talking about crusaders, they're very neurally dominant, very sympathetic, neurally dominant. So their brain charges their body up. There'll be lots of thinking going on in their head. They essentially need to be the expert. And then everything will be fine. If they are the expert of their topic, they can talk for hours because they know, they know. It's about certainty of knowledge and then they can freestyle a whole lot more. The Diplomat loves that knowledge, but they'll still love the structure, 'cause otherwise they'll waffle. Whereas the Crusader, the risk that they run is being too technical and too expert and not making it fun enough because they, they love getting into the granular detail of things and they need to lift out.
Dr. Cam:
And they often will just talk nonstop because they like the sound of their own voice and they're less interested in what other people have got to say about it 'cause they already know. As long as they are really well-versed they'll be able to get up and speak. And they actually quite like it because there's a status thing that plays into their brain and their dopamine system that says, I'm standing on stage, I am doing well. I feel good, and I can modulate my tone. And I'm the expert and I'm being recognized and people are respecting me. All of these things very important to a Crusader.
Sally:
So. Great. So we're gonna go through the other three. 'cause I'm really curious, before we do, how did you come up with these different profiles?
Dr. Cam:
So I'd love to say that it was my work, but there was an effort done. Early two thousands. We're looking at 10,000 individuals for five years with an extreme amount of data, hypergranular, personalized data that was collated. And we've, we then used that huge data set. We now have 300 million human years in that data that we've been collecting over the last two decades. And what we see is we, we looked at Ayurvedic models, Chinese medicine models, convention, conventional medicine, hippocratic medicine, somato types, molecular biology, all of the different disciplines of medicine, and said what actually fits. And we used, we've been using AI since 2011 to rationalize these models.
Sally:
Oh, very early adopters of AI.
Dr. Cam:
Yeah. So we've now got the leading precision medicine platform on the planet. We have the same thing for corporate wellbeing and understanding children at schools and their physiological makeup. We started in medicine, but now we can, we can talk about behaviors 'cause hormones and genes are driving your behaviors.
Sally:
Yeah. Amazing. So as we're going through these, I'm sure people are hearing, oh yes, I sound like a Crusader, or, I'm the Activator, you know, how do you know which one you are?
Dr. Cam:
So there's a measurement that we do. Like you essentially sign up and you get a precision health profile. And then it provides you all of the different things about the best timing of the day, foods, exercise, whatever it might be. But you actually can take measurements at home, but in workplaces it's a couple of photos and you can actually determine these things. You can extract genetics and hormones from two photos. Now, with all of the data that we have.
Sally:
I need to do this.
Dr. Cam:
Oh, absolutely.
Sally:
I'll put the link in the show notes as well.
Dr. Cam:
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Sally:
So, great. All right. So we've got the activator, which sort of sounds like me actually. I'm a bit of a get energy out before I go up.
Dr. Cam:
My prediction is not that, but we'll talk about that when we get there.
Sally:
Oh, okay. All right. It might be another one. So we've got so far Activator, Diplomat, Crusader, who's next?
Dr. Cam:
So the guardian is the opposite of the crusader. Crusaders are very, this is my purpose, this is what I'm doing. Guardians are very, what's everybody doing? How can I support all of you? So guardians have got the biggest, strongest body. Think typical Samoan, big, strong body, big voice, big lungs. And they will be motivated if it serves their clan and they are less likely to be up the front talking. They are much likely to defer attention to other people because they, their biology actually makes them wanna really focus on others. And so what's gonna help them with preparation is going to be knowing how this is gonna contribute to the people in the audience really sitting in that space. And this is gonna help them so much. It's also going to know that people off the side, their team are really happy because they're very responsive. Their stress response is huge when it comes to the connection to their family and their clan. If there's stress in their clan, that will affect the stress in their body. Whereas crusaders are less affected by that blood sugar response. Very important. They go into a free state as well, but they've just got a little bit more resilience for pushing through the cortisol than the diplomat does, for example. So big lungs, big voice, and it will be about everybody. It'll be about bringing everybody together will be their focus.
Sally:
Yeah. you mentioned earlier epigenetics, and this is a term that I'm sure a lot of people including myself, have heard, but don't know much about.
Dr. Cam:
Yep. So when you are developing in the womb, you've got genes from your parents and your extended family. And depending on the nutrients that are available to you, the environment in the womb, certain genes turn on, certain genes turn off. And that then sets a trajectory for how your body is gonna grow throughout the rest of your life. So that also happens if you, in a short term way, even now, you walk into a refrigerator, it's cold. The jeans that make you shiver turn on the jeans that make you sweat turn off because you don't wanna be sweating in a 'cause you freeze. But then you walk into a sauna and the jeans for shivering turn off and the jeans genes are sweating, turn on. So this is epigenetics, but this happens both in a long term format. That is we change something embryologically it will influence the rest of your life. Versus I'm gonna change something in this moment. Right now I exercise for half an hour. My genes change for a day to make me look fitter and to recover more. But if I don't exercise for a while, those genes aren't on anymore and I'm not recovering and I'm not getting fitter. You can definitely affect the quality of your life, but the, your natural strengths, like the core drivers of personality are built into your genetics. Life's about finding yourself rather than it's somewhere else that you've gotta change into.
Sally:
Yeah. It's the great journey within. So as part of this test, do you do one of these epigenetic profiles?
Dr. Cam:
So we can actually do it because we have so much data we can do it with just looking at the outside of the body, things like measurements around the body, different bone structures, but then also hair color, eye color, skin tone, disease history. So it's just a questionnaire and a number of measures. And you're done in 20 minutes and it's incredible.
Sally:
Amazing. Okay. Great. So we've just covered the Guardian two to go. Who's next?
Dr. Cam:
The Sensor, the least likely person that you're gonna see on stage. So this is a very delicate individual. The lightest bones, the smallest structures, they have a very, very intense nervous system. So when they get stressed, all of the activity goes up to their frontal cortex. And they're processing so much data. So if it gets too cold, if it's too noisy, if there's too much light, if there's a wind, if there's lack of information, then their brain is gonna have all of the sensory input coming into their mind. It blows the frontal cortex up into activity. And now it's like hyper thinking, hyper analysis. And that can get in the road of performance. They are so sensitive to the attention and the energy that everybody has. Like, they walk into a room, they go, I don't like the feeling of this room.
Dr. Cam:
I'm out. I'm gonna go stand outside by myself with my warm jacket on underneath the heater, but it's still summer. You know, I just wanna be warm and comfortable and dial down. So if they're preparing their voice, they need to essentially be very knowledgeable in their information. They need to be warm enough, they need to even ask the lights to be more dim, and that will create less intensity and like not have the spotlight straight into their eyes. That all makes a difference. 'cause It deloads their nervous system, which is very sensitive. Even not eating too soon beforehand, like just liquids because they, they won't digest well when their brain is very active. So liquid carbohydrates before they go on will actually very much support the mental athletics that they need to perform to manage all of this.
Sally:
Well hopefully we've got some Sensors listening because maybe a lot of people like that aren't even listening to a voice in public speaking podcast!
Dr. Cam:
Exactly. You'll know someone like it though. They just wanna spend time by themselves in a nice dimly lit room. It's like, Can we just turn those lights off? Can we just turn that TV off that forever? That was what my mom would be saying through my childhood. She was a sensor. Can we just turn that down? You know, it's just the nervous system is just so much more dialed up. That's how they stay safe.
Sally:
Yeah, it's interesting. There's lots of different layers with this. I feel I'm a very auditory person, which is why when I did my silent retreat, I almost went mad. I really struggled not having any sound. I was over the fence tuned into the leaf blower. But I'm a bit the same. I have to have music on while I'm working. Yet if I'm focused on one thing and there's something really loud in the other room, I can't handle it.
Dr. Cam:
You don't realize that it's the background stress that's then disturbing you from being in your highest performing state.
Sally:
Yeah. Wow.
Dr. Cam:
So, we've got one more.
Sally:
Lucky last.
Dr. Cam:
Yeah. The Connector. The Connector is made for the stage, made for the bright lights. They are all about, I wanna be in front of people. They're very visual. They use their visual cortex a whole lot more. And their whole game is to gather as much oxytocin as they can. Oxytocin is your trust and connection hormone. And this is the thing,
Sally:
So that's probably me!
Dr. Cam:
We're a combination of a lot of things. And so the connectors are looking for, they're looking for visual friendliness and if they see friendly faces, they'll feel good within themselves. And then they've got this natural ability to match the vibe and change themselves to bring people to where they want to go. So they're actually the ultimate storyteller 'cause If they see a crowd that's their face is a little bit low, they'll eye contact them, they'll lift them up, they'll make a joke, they'll do something that's spontaneous, that creates a spark. So the Connectors are the most social, the most extrovert, extroverted. They'll be hyper aroused physiologically by all of this attention. And they'll love it. One of the amazing things is that without that attention, they're actually very low energy. They need to be in front, they need to be around people to have their energy. And they do very, very well in that space too.
Sally:
It's interesting 'cause we've all got one that we would fit into. However, you know, in the work that I do, I would say that everybody can learn how to connect on stage. Everybody can learn how to tell stories more effectively and things like that. So is that how you would describe it? Like these are sort of our baseline, but of course we're able to learn skills in different areas and,
Dr. Cam:
Absolutely. And it's a combination. So if you've got a Ferrari and you want to teach it how to drive off-road, you're going to drive off-road really, really fast. Like Ferrari have just got one speed, if that makes sense. So, and the example that I'll give, let's say you've got a Sensor who's more introverted, doesn't like as much attention for them to be a good story, they love logic process and pathway. So having a five-step pathway to writing a good story and then they practice it and they say, Oh, at 0.2 you've gotta change your tone. It's like, Oh great, how do I change my tone? Oh, these three steps to change your tone. So the sensor to be a great storyteller will have to get very, very comfortable with the process of the, of the technical aspects of what it is to be a great storyteller.
Dr. Cam:
'Cause That's the way their brain works in linear sequence and they love structure and order. And to try and say, Hey, just go out there and have fun! Makes no sense to them because it's not how their brain works. It's not their strength to be that way. Whereas some, like the connector, what you're gonna trouble struggle with is getting them to say the things that you want them to say, you know? So they're gonna go out there and they're gonna be in the moment and they're gonna be creative and that's their strength. And so what connectors need to tell a great story that lands with everybody is they need to be taught the milestones of the story that they need to hit so that they can freestyle off those milestones, but still hit the milestones. So it's to say, yes, we can be great storytellers, but trying to do it like somebody else outside of your natural strengths, it's just like swimming.
Sally:
It's not gonna work.
Dr. Cam:
Exactly.
Sally:
Yeah. And that's why, you know, certain people will resonate with certain coaches, but also with my approach, for example, it's energetic, it's technical, it's physiology, it's a whole lot of different ways. And at the end of the day, it's always about voice from within. Finding what works for you, taking what works for you.
Dr. Cam:
The thing that you want to be, if you wanna be speaking is yourself. And it's the ownership of those things, which will create the authenticity that's gonna make everybody respond to you a whole lot more. Authenticity is the most attractive relationship thing that you can have. And so to know yourself, to know that you are hyperprocess driven and not judge it to know that you are a little bit scattered and you just get out there and do it freestyle to know that is great. And to not judge it is great. To know that you love being the expert and you love the status of being out there and leaning into that rather than, you know, doing what Australia does and just cut tall poppies off. Just know that you love being out there and it energizes you in that way. Once you have comfort in that, you can then be a lot more comfortable in, well, what does this audience need?
Dr. Cam:
And what are the different things that different people in the audience are gonna require from me? But you can only do that once you really know you. So the more that you can get to know you, even the less stress you'll be in anyway because you have ownership and understanding and any natural strength that you have, you should triple down on. And particularly when it comes to your weaknesses, you want to use your strengths to manage your weaknesses rather than just get really, really good at your weaknesses. It's you go the other way. You sneakily use your strengths to get really good at your weaknesses.
Sally:
I love that story as a kid. The Animal Olympics, the fish wins the swim but loses climbing the tree and the monkey can't swim. And it's like, rather than every animal thinking that they're bad at something, just lean into what you're good at and start from there. And I find as well, with a lot of the clients I work with is a lot of these fears and doubts of from trying to be someone else or do it the way they think they should do it or you know, try to work against themselves rather than with.
Dr. Cam:
Yeah. And as I said, knowing yourself decreases your stress, which then improves your voice and improves your facial expressions and allows you to sit into the content of what you're trying to share. Like the knowledge of self is stress relieving. It's amazing.
Sally:
Yeah. So how can people find you?
Dr. Cam:
It's shae.group, @drCamMcDonald. I'll send it and then you can essentially navigate to the area that's most relevant for you.
Sally:
Yeah, and I'll put those links in the show notes. Oh, Dr. Cameron McDonald, thank you so much. What a fascinating episode.
Dr. Cam:
Thank you so much, Sally. I really appreciate it.